Elbow scoring

A New question:
Is elbow scoring really neccesary? In SA only hip scoring is done, but no one EVER do elbow scoring.
Is/Was this a problem with saints at some point? I seldom see bad elbow scores?

Hi there

YES, ELBOW SCORING IS EQUALLY AS IMPORTANT AS HIP SCORING!!!!!!!!!
Only my opinion I know, but really cannot see why people do not have the elbows x-rayed when the
hips are done. The problem with elbow dysplasia is that it does not always show symptoms, so gets passed
on without breeders knowing.
Having lived with one of our girls who has severe HD and ED, I can categorically say that it has been her elbow
that caused her the most pain when she was younger.
My reasoning is that if we know what we are dealing with by hip and elbow scoring, we can make a more informed
choice when deciding on our breeding plans.

Karen

Link about elbow dysplasia from the BVA
http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/chs_elbow.pdf

Is elbows scored the same as hips? Eg a (clear) getting worse to c and D?

And the symptoms? How will you pick up on elbows?

I want to know this, as I want to import new dogs into SA, and want to make sure I get the absolute best for my money. Thus if hips AND elbows are scored, I'm sure it would be better then only hip scores? That is ofcourse assuming the eys and everything else is clear.

Do they do any heart /eye tests on dogs before breeding?

heart and eye tests are optional

we do both and always have the heart checked BEFORE we hip score as if the hearts no good why risk putting a dog under- and why bother hip scoring a dog with a bad heart thats not going to be bred from!

our vet was agaisnt doing diesels elbows as he said for a young dog the way they have to place the eblows isnt nice and it means knocking them out completely rather than mild sedation for hip scoring alone.

i kind of agreed however thinking about it now i wish id have done it as if he is healthy then it shouldnt have been an issue anyway!

cheri

Heart testing is a subject that we on the H&W Commitee have discussed recently.

Whilst we all recognise the problems that our breed suffer with hearts, there have been tests on various dogs & what we have actually been informed of is that although a dog can be tested 'clear' it has to be done yearly, as one test is not enough, given that heart disease can occur at any time.

There was one case of a lady who had her dog heart tested & he was given the all clear, however just a few days later, the dog sadly died, of a heart problem.

The conclusion about heart testing was that the test & the result is only as good as the day it is done, it does not mean that your dog will or won't suffer a heart condition (given the evidence above), but at that time all was ok & it has to be done yearly.

yes heart and eye testing is yearly but at about £30 each there not too bad !

cheri

Yes its relatively cheap to do, but what concerns us is that although you could have your dog tested say at 3pm today, the results are only good for that moment in time, doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't keel over in a few days time with a heart condition, which is what happened to the lady I mentioned before. :-(

I have seen people say they eye test their Saints & they are 'clear'. Am interested to know what they are testing for?
Different breeds suffer from different eye conditions so which one would our breed be testing for?

Doline - in the UK elbows are scored again by numbers like our hips. 0 bring the best, 3 being the worst.
I guess lots of people think hipscoring is more important than elbow scoring as HD appears to show much more obvious symptoms of lameness etc behind, whereas a dog can suffer from ED & show no symptoms & from what I can gather HD is more common as an issue than ED.
If you look at scores of dogs that have been xrayed for both & both scores published 9 times out of 10 the elbow score will be 'good' whereas probably 6 or 7 times out f 10 hips will be

I have a dog with '3' elbows, there was some lameness as a youngster but that stopped when the dog stopped growing. This same dog has very low hipscore of 7, so just because the elbows are 3 it wouldn't stop me from using the dog for breeding, I would just be conscious.

All these issues need to be taken into consideration - however scores are not the be all & end all.

Example... a bitch I bred (who has a low score) has recently had an 'accidental' litter to a dog who has been hipscored with a low score.
Great you would think.. however the dog in question may have good looking xrays BUT in my opionion is NOT a good example of the breed. Has awful movement, pedigree littered with health & temperament issues etc etc & is a dog I would NEVER have used on one of my own bitches.
Somehow in some people breeding with no knowledge of the dogs behind their dogs, issues that have cropped up in the breed & some basic idea about conformation & movement, there is this mentality if the hip scores are good then it must be ok to ignore everything else.....

i think your right heather

its mainly the pet owners who look at hip scoring and dont take anything else into consideration

may have a hip score and elbow score of all zeros BUT bites everyone it meets has the worst eyes you can imagine and the bite...... ( what pet owner even askes about the bite ????)

i do think scoring is a good idea so we can know what we are dealing with and try balance things out for a good litter

however it is not all we should look at - and most breeders dont..... but i bet most pet owners do!!!